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I can't find it anymore but the 'cut up' version of it is found in this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj5nGUwlieU<br />The footage with the little children (starting from around 1min) comes out of one single video showing treatment of the same little children for minutes on end. What I notice is this 'center line' in the necks of the children, the arm tied for finding blood vessels, canules (or what is it called, I'm not a medical person) in the arms, and continuous injection of children (also intramuscular) without checking vital signs. On top of that, they are lying on the floor in a dark spot. No one seems to be keeping track which child got which treatment, different persons seem to be injecting at random with very little monitoring of heart rates (not many stethoscopes to be seen...)<br />Could a medical first aid doctor give an opinion on this footage? Maybe someone knows how to find the original non-cut up video of the children, that would be handy...<br />veritasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-67177251184064481602013-12-10T01:53:20.686+00:002013-12-10T01:53:20.686+00:00I didn't look into the treatment at all so far...I didn't look into the treatment at all so far. Please update if you find anything interesting.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560859391032391947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-70694775799049550322013-12-09T21:29:03.479+00:002013-12-09T21:29:03.479+00:00Jumped to conclusions concerning atropine again, i...Jumped to conclusions concerning atropine again, intravascular is mentioned on internet. I don't know how to delete comments so I rectify this way...<br />Still wonder what else was injected and might have had an effect on previously injected atropine. Doesnt seem logical in chaos to go for central line and intravascular injection if only atropine is administered.veritasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-15395393686328684132013-12-09T21:00:08.108+00:002013-12-09T21:00:08.108+00:00The medical treatment given to the children in the...The medical treatment given to the children in the videos still bothers me. Sorry to bother you further with this. The main injections I see with the children seems to be intravascular. What are they treating the children with? I looked up the references for the atropine and it is all intramuscular. I can't find anything about what happens if given intravascular. A lot of the children have these central lines in their necks and on top of that, they are getting, or seem to have had an intravascular injection in the arm. Has the medical treatment given to the victims been covered in your blog? veritasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-11862153377699124152013-12-09T13:12:52.062+00:002013-12-09T13:12:52.062+00:00I've heard a theory that it's to stiffen t...I've heard a theory that it's to stiffen the cannister for launch in HE and CW variants.<br /><br />I don't accept that. Steel strength is measured in hundreds of mega-pascals while gas is of the order a few thousand hectopascals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-2618340597361224272013-12-09T03:30:04.617+00:002013-12-09T03:30:04.617+00:00Interesting idea, but then why was it found in the...Interesting idea, but then why was it found in the HE version?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560859391032391947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-52684972458606999722013-12-08T14:51:45.817+00:002013-12-08T14:51:45.817+00:00Just one other comment on the 'bicycle pump...Just one other comment on the 'bicycle pump'<br /><br />It may possibly be designed to pressurise and aerate the liquid - but not enough to rupture the cannister. The design of the unit with multiple holes in it says it's a gas generator.<br /><br />Purely hypothetically It's designed to turn the liquid into a fizzy mix with lots of dissolved gas. When the bursting charge ruptures the cannister the liquid not only gets torn up by aerodynamic forces, but any remnant droplets or bulk liquid froth to dramatically increase the liquid surface area.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-44510108058341223722013-12-08T02:48:08.935+00:002013-12-08T02:48:08.935+00:00Based on the lack of damage to the blast plug and ...Based on the lack of damage to the blast plug and surrounding tube the charge was not very large or violent. It would have been good enough to rupture the pre-scored cannister but not much more.<br /><br />If the intention was primary dispersion of the liquid it would have been larger mass and in a linear form down the centre of the cannister - as in conventional CW munitions.<br /><br />Of course, it's all a continuum as the charge would obviously have dispersed some liquid in its own right. The discussion is 'how much'. I contend not that much and it was mostly done by aerodynamic forces.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-25817294505328157662013-12-08T02:04:40.629+00:002013-12-08T02:04:40.629+00:00How do you know the charge is too small to achieve...How do you know the charge is too small to achieve good dispersal?<br />The bicycle pump is indeed connected to the base, but there could be a wire from there to the antenna at the tip (pure speculation here).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560859391032391947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-85338623331374706152013-12-08T01:07:25.308+00:002013-12-08T01:07:25.308+00:00The dispersal charge as cody wave pointed out is d...The dispersal charge as cody wave pointed out is designed to burst the pre-scored cannister. It's not big enough to rip it into rough shards and it's not the same as conventional bursting charges that are a rod of explosives down the centre of the payload cannister. The intent appears to have been to release the liquid into the airstream to be broken up into small droplets and vapour - hence an airburst is required.<br /><br />If it was a contact fuse it was too small to 'blast the sarin back in the air'. The bulk of the liquid would still impact the ground, creating high concentrations on the immediate surface and in the crater where the missile shaft embedded (a hot-spot).<br /><br />Nose-cone? There is ZERO evidence of a nose-cone from multiple strike records. Nor has it ever been seen on any launches including the Liwa al-Islam ones. A nose-cone is purely hypothetical and appears to be raised be people with a pre-formed view that the range of the 122mm volcano is far longer than it actually is (not that a nose-cone helps much at all)<br /><br />Bicycle pump? The device is connected to the base not the nose. Conventional artillery and mortar ground nose proximity fuses are quite small and do not need external electronics. The only use I can think of is as a secondary bursting charge in case the nose-fuse is a dud (we have at least one example where the liquid volcano landed without detonation)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-75346678676084778752013-12-07T21:48:01.739+00:002013-12-07T21:48:01.739+00:00Interesting point. I indeed don't recall seein...Interesting point. I indeed don't recall seeing a video from hospitals that is a few days after the attack. Anyone?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560859391032391947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-78177306401445914702013-12-07T20:36:51.688+00:002013-12-07T20:36:51.688+00:00You´re right, an eventual atropine overdose doesn´...You´re right, an eventual atropine overdose doesn´t seem lethal according to several internet sites. I seem to remember one of the blog contributors with direct experience mentioning the danger of atropine overdose... <br />But doesn´t it seem strange that a week after the events there are no patients anymore that need follow up? No one with drips etc... The patients seemed to have walked away the following day or to have died. Not much in between. Maybe this can be explained by the war situationveritasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-35090692595754337162013-12-07T16:57:23.251+00:002013-12-07T16:57:23.251+00:00Based on this it's hard to kill with atropine
...Based on this it's hard to kill with atropine<br />http://www.rxlist.com/atropine-drug/overdosage-contraindications.htm#OD<br /><br />I'm not yet sure there was no proximity fuse. In some videos we see what could be a proximity antenna at the tip.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560859391032391947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-50646807646777530172013-12-07T16:35:48.438+00:002013-12-07T16:35:48.438+00:00Sasa,
1. Are we sure that the high fatality rate...Sasa,<br /><br /><br />1. Are we sure that the high fatality rate was not partially caused by the atropine? On the videos you see people injecting victims óver and over´. Total chaos, no one registering who already had their Atropine dose and who not, did they take into account the weight of the patients... The side effects of an overdose do somewhat coincide with what we see in videos...<br />2.Confined space in Tokyo was VERY confined: a crowded metro carriage.<br /><br />Charles,<br />You don´t think it was a contact fuse . Why would we need to see a ´hot spot´in the ground? What do you mean with hotspot? Sasa thinks the dispersal charge is at the front so coming in contact with the earth, the Sarin would be dispersed and not injected in the crater.<br /><br />Sasa and Charles,<br />Can I conclude that you both think it was not a proximity fuse since no nose cap has been found?<br /><br />Addition to a possible scenario:<br />People came running to the medical centers out of panic because affected (non letally) by Sarin. Due to overdose more were killed than would have without treatment...<br />So bad dispersal of Sarin and the high fatality is not necessarily in conflict.veritasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-75850370290822773592013-12-07T15:45:53.256+00:002013-12-07T15:45:53.256+00:00veritas,
Good point about sarin not used in the &...veritas,<br /><br />Good point about sarin not used in the 'open canister' method. On the other hand, it wasn't used at all during the period when this method was used.<br /><br />As to the puddle efficiency - I guess it depends on its area. That would determine how much can evaporate into the environment. Let's see what Charles comes up with.<br /><br />Comparing to Tokyo: They used 7 liters and killed 13 (injuring hundreds), That's 2 fatalities per liter. Zamalka is 1-2 fatalities per liter. The differences:<br />1. Tokyo had far better medical care than Ghouta. In some cases they didn't even have atropine.<br />2. Tokyo was a confined space.<br />3. Tokyo had no dispersion mechanism. Zamalka had something, although we're not yet sure how effective.<br />4. Tokyo was 30% purity. No idea about Zamalka.<br /><br />Overall, i think the numbers make sense even with a limited dispersal mechanism.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560859391032391947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-9786493756456369462013-12-07T15:33:43.282+00:002013-12-07T15:33:43.282+00:00Charles,
Someone suggested that the proximity ante...Charles,<br />Someone suggested that the proximity antenna is in the nose (seen in some videos), while the electronics are in the bicycle pump inside the warhead.<br />Since the steel dish was only found in one site, which had lots of other debris, I hesitate to attribute it to the rocket.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560859391032391947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-632043483031742542013-12-07T13:35:29.538+00:002013-12-07T13:35:29.538+00:00If it´s a puddle, it will be enough to kill unprot...If it´s a puddle, it will be enough to kill unprotected civilians when there is a hit inside a populated area, but will that puddle in the middle of the field seen in the video be enough to kill eg 40 civilians (500/12rockets)? Especially if the puddle is in the crater and also considering the degrading time at relative high ambient temperatures.<br />Opening the canisters upwind was never used with Sarin (I think?). Would that work on a battle field with 2 buckets of Sarin (circa 50 liters).<br />The Tokyo events with the plastic bags was in a confined space and "only" a few tens of victims...<br />Wouldn´t the dispersal mechanism be very important here to get the amount of registered victims?veritasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-2874388022551037272013-12-07T13:33:44.976+00:002013-12-07T13:33:44.976+00:00Prox fuses are in the nose. The 'bicycle pump&...Prox fuses are in the nose. The 'bicycle pump' appears to have some other use. Prox fuses can be very small and would also be used in FAE and WP versions.<br /><br />If it was a contact fuse then a significant fraction of the Sarin would end up in the ground and create a hot-spot that would be very obvious to the UN inspectors. This hasn't been reported.<br /><br />There is also the Al-Jazeera video showing a 200mm perforated steel dish. This dish appears to have been part of the forward internal assembly of the missile (see jody wave comments). The fact it's not damaged indicates the detonation was above ground and very likely a low impulse bursting charge rather than HE .<br /><br />Incidentally, the 'it must have been the Regime' crew constantly refer to a possible 'nosecone version' in attempts to stretch the possible range. <br /><br />The fact is no nosecones have been seen on any volcano splashes, particularly not in any Zamalka splash.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4304138063571120909.post-46106488252963987152013-12-07T12:59:28.936+00:002013-12-07T12:59:28.936+00:00Simulation says velocity when hitting ground is 11...Simulation says velocity when hitting ground is 111m/s. The booster charge is at the tip of the warhead, so it contradicts this inertia, but no one has calculated whether the charge size is enough or what exactly would be the cloud size.<br />We also don't know if it explodes on contact, or if it has a proximity sensor (possibly the 'bicycle pump'). <br />It won't damage the sarin - that's the standard dispersal mechanism for sarin.<br />In any case, even if it just creates a puddle, it could be effective enough against unprotected victims. That was the original way CW was used - just opening canisters upwind from the target.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560859391032391947noreply@blogger.com